Career Warrior Podcast #310) Is Employee Engagement Declining? | Quiet Quitting & Moving Toward a More Satisfying Career | Sonja Price

Episode Transcript

Sonja Price 0:00
People say, “Oh, I want a new job I’m gonna update my resume.” But then they don’t really know what they’re updating their resume for, right, or they just end up accepting a job. That’s pretty much, you know, an exact replica of what they’re doing right now.

Chris Villanueva 0:17
Welcome to the Let’s Eat, Grandma Career Warrior Podcast.

And welcome to the Let’s Eat, Grandma Career Warrior Podcast where our goal is not only to help you land your dream job, but to help you live your best life. Is employee engagement declining? Wow, this is a hot tic episode and it is especially relevant as we move towards the perhaps tail end of 2023. We’re seeing some interesting things. We’re going to talk about how to move towards a more satisfying career something that our podcast really really likes to hit home with some of the amazing career coaches we add.

For today, I brought on veteran and amazing all star guest Sonja “Dynamo” Price. She has been on this podcast before obviously, and with 15 years of experience – 15 plus years of experience in leadership and consulting, Sonja has worked with a wide range of clients, including Amazon, Google, HBO, and many others. Sonja has a Master’s in Leadership and Organizational Development and is a Certified Career and Executive Coach. She trained with Al Gore to become a Climate Reality Leader and is actively engaged with the Seattle Board of Conscious Capitalism. Sonja is passionate about empowering professionals to accelerate their career success to become financially free and to make a positive impact around the world. In her downtime, she enjoys skiing, playing piano, and geeking out over strategy board games. You can learn more about Sonja at dynamocareers.com. So without further ado, let’s launch into this hot tech episode of the Career Warrior Podcast.

Alright, Sonja, in 2022, we saw the rise of the term “quiet quitting” used to describe the act of just doing the bare minimum of job descriptions. And I’ll ask you more in a second if I’m getting this definition right. But it sounds like people were doing just like the bare minimum and not going above and beyond or trying to really accomplish things deeply for the company. So is this “quiet quitting” term is continuing even as we move on into Q3 or Q4 in 2023. And did I get that definition right of “quiet quitting”?

Sonja Price 2:29
Absolutely. I for sure, like, quiet quitting has always been there, and probably always will be there. And how I typically define “quiet quitting” is doing the bare minimum to get by so that you still have a job but you kind of like quietly quit in your mind. Like, you’re not doing the things that are going to help get you promoted, you’re just kind of coasting and doing the bare minimum so that nobody notices and hopefully you don’t get fired.

Chris Villanueva 3:00
Yeah, that’s just like you’re motivated by not getting fired. That’s it. Yeah.

Sonja Price 3:04
Yeah. That’s great. Were you saying it? 

Chris Villanueva 3:06
Yeah, I mean, this, I don’t know when I was doing my own just kind of review on the whole like trend, I feel like this all started last year in 2022. When I guess like it got, I guess, just promoted through Tik Tok and other apps, like, you know, things like that. But it is good to call out that this is always been a thing and it’s just sounds like this is just like an unproductive workforce. And it’s there’s always going to be a workforce that’s disengaged. So I talked about this with you earlier, there’s like the term actively disengaged, and there’s quiet quitting, like, how are the two different? How would they distinguish quiet quitting among other people who are just not engaged?

Sonja Price 3:49
Yeah, I think the distinction for me, you know, maybe you can think about it is quiet quitting versus loudly quitting. And loudly quitting doesn’t necessarily mean you’re like, you know, singing it from the rooftops, or anything like that. But I think there’s probably like another layer or another level of depth to it, where quiet quitting would be putting in the bare minimum efforts and actively disengaged, I would say, with being psychologically disconnected from the organization, meaning that you’re like, “I am literally not here,” like “I’m not checked in,” and maybe you’re actually already actively looking for other work elsewhere. And you know, you can be the same. You can be both at the same time so you can be a quiet quitter and actively disengage, right, but you probably already have one foot out the door versus quiet quitting is like, “I might not necessarily be looking for a new job, but I’m just kind of getting by, and I hope nobody notices.”

Chris Villanueva 4:53
I think as an employer or as like a manager, at least I could tell if somebody’s actively disengaged or about to do a loud quitting whatever session, whatever you want to call it, but I feel like I’d have a hard time knowing whether somebody was quiet quitting unless I really was paying attention to like their work patterns. And I feel like people who are quiet quitting may not even know whether they’re doing it or not. So is it possible to be quiet quitting without knowing it? And how would I identify the signs of quiet quitting?

Sonja Price 5:23
I think that there could be people who require lead quitting without noticing it. They’re just not, they’re not that interested in, you know, they’re not going above and beyond. So there’s plenty, there’s plenty of those folks. And that’s probably one of the reasons why companies have performance reviews to begin with, because the most standard Porphyrins reviews that we see all the way at the top is exceeds expectations, needs expectations, does not meet expectation. And I know different companies have different levels there. But it’s like, you know, I think typically, you know, maybe the quiet quarters, get the meet expectations that I think if that goes on for too long, then you’re probably going to be in that category of does not meet expectations. And in that case, the performance improvement plan get put in place to say, Hey, you got to put in more effort here. If you want to stay you got to put in more effort here. Or maybe it’s going to be time to move on. So yeah.

Chris Villanueva 6:20
So let’s say you have one of your clients come to you and they are just checked out. Like it’s just like, this is a job that they’ve been doing day in day out and they just like, not a bit of their heart or soul goes into it these days. How do you recommend that they proceed forward with the next steps? Is this typically, like? Do you tell people that typically, like stick it out for some time? Or do you tell people that okay, you’re checked out, so it’s time for you to start looking for a job? And I know there’s no one size fits all quite alike? Answer. That’s why people come to you. But generally speaking, where where are you with your clients?

Sonja Price 6:58
You know, I might actually reference a client that I’m currently working with right now, who I take falls into this exact same category, that he is so burnt out. And his current work team is really not working for him. He doesn’t like the environment. It’s a high stress, high pressure kind of situation. And yet, he’s with a big tech company. And he has a whole bunch of stock that has not bested yet. And so you know, this is like, it’s situational. It depends kind of situation. Because if there’s nothing writing on the line, I would just say, “Well, what’s preventing you from looking for another job, because there’s so many opportunities out there, like go find something that actually works for you where you can be with a company that matches your values, you’re making good money, they appreciate and acknowledge your contributions, and all the things that you’re looking for. Maybe you want 100% remote work environment, and you don’t have it where you’re at right now, you know, there’s a number of different things like that, right?

So it’s like, identify, what are you looking for? What do you want? And can you get that and your current company? Or is it time to go elsewhere? So can you get it in your current company, maybe you can, but maybe it means changing teams. So the client situation I was just referencing, what I’m working with him on right now is, you know, he wants to stay with the company for at least one to two more years so that his stock options can vest and then he gets all big cash payout, right, if he wants to whenever he wants to sell the stock. So, you know, we’ve been talking about like, well, what other internal opportunities exist? And how can you position yourself in a way to feasibly land one of those internal opportunities so you don’t have to completely quit the company that maybe you go to a different department, or, you know, when enough is enough, maybe it’s just time to go to a completely different organization and start over somewhere now.

Chris Villanueva 8:53
So let’s say you’re going to and I love that answer, thank you for that, if let’s say you are going to go the route of, “Okay, I’m going to try to make this work for the organization.” There’s maybe some stuff riding the line, how would I approach that conversation? And like, are there risks in perhaps bringing this up? And then like self identifying as, “Oh my gosh, if I have this conversation, I’m gonna out myself as somebody who really just doesn’t care about the job, and there’s a risk of getting fired.” But how would you how do we approach the conversation?

Sonja Price 9:23
If you want to go to a different department internally? 

Chris Villanueva 9:26
Correct. Yes. Same, same organization, same company. Yeah.

Sonja Price 9:30
Yeah. So well, a lot of companies actually have kind of either spoken or unspoken policies about this. Generally, the way that I think it works best is if you start reaching out to the new teams first, try to connect with different hiring managers and have, you know, like more of a informational interview setup first, just to see if it’s a good fit, and then if it feels like it is a good fit, then you can kind of proceed with the next official steps in the process. Every company is a little bit different, like some companies, they say, “Well go ahead and apply to the job and it will remain confidential. Until we say that you’re the best candidate for the job, then we have to ask your current manager.” And sometimes you have to get permission from your current manager before you can move on to a new department and then there’s also different companies situations that I’ve seen that like, even to interview with different teams, you kind of already have to have the blessing from your current manager.

So it’s always going to be a little bit situational. But there’s no harm in having an informational interview with the new hiring manager, because if you’ve seen the job postings and you can find out who the hiring manager is, then I would generally just reach out to them through email and say, “Hey, here’s who I am. This is my background work experience. I’m very interested in this open role that you have, would you be willing to meet with me for coffee for 20 minutes?” or “Can we have a quick 15 minute phone call or whatever it is just asking for a limited time investment, to have a conversation about it to see if it’s even a good fit to begin with?” And then if it is, then you can officially apply or if you need your current managers blessing, then you go talk to your manager and say, “Hey, you know, I’m interested in some other opportunities within the company. These are the roles that I’m interested in and here’s why. I would generally try to give a good reason as to why. The reason is not because I hate this team, or I don’t like working with you. You know, the reason is generally like, I’ve been looking at my career goals and I’m wanting to grow my skill set. In this way, I’d like to continue working for this organization. So, instead of going to get a new job with a new organization, I’d like to pursue internal opportunities, where I can continue to contribute to the company mission and make a big difference for our current organization.”

Chris Villanueva 12:01
Awesome. I love that it just, again, this is like more of a well-rounded approach. We’re not telling anyone here, it’s like you have to quit or you have to stay as part of your organization. It’s like thinking about these things and navigate it tactfully. That’s why we create these episodes here. I’ll cap this off and ask if you have any final words of advice for people who were done with their company they’ve had enough and they want to make that transition out? What do you tell those clients who you work with, who are just ready to move on to a completely different company.

Sonja Price 12:33
If you’re ready to move on, get your resume and your LinkedIn order, you know, get your LinkedIn profile in good working order, make sure that everything is optimized, even before you take that step. I would do a strategic planning session, either with yourself or with a coach or a mentor or guide to say, “What is the next right thing for me? What are my short and long term career goals? What will the next opportunity? How will that be beneficial to how will that be advantageous to me in pursuit of my longer term career goals?” So, I oftentimes just see people say, “I want a new job, I’m gonna update my resume,” but then they don’t really know what they’re updating their resume for, right? Or they just end up accepting a job. That’s pretty much a, you know, exact replica of what they’re doing right now.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that but if you want to grow and accelerate your career, you generally need to think think about it through a much more strategic lens. And I know that’s the work that I do and I know Chris does that with his clients, as well as like, help people identify, what do you actually want to be doing? And then how do you need to position yourself so that when you are, you know, rebranding your resume and your LinkedIn profile, it presents you in the way that you need to be seen in the job marketplace. So you actually can make an upgrade, you know, as you move from position to position.

Chris Villanueva 13:54
I will say you will just in general, have a stronger resume that is going to stand out and you’ll capture the right keywords that are going to be used to search for someone like you, versus if you just say I just want a better resume and I don’t want whatever I had the last position it doesn’t give a resume writer or you if you’re going to do your resume yourself. It doesn’t give you much to go off of so I would just like triple echo what you said about clarity first, I think it helps so much.

Alright, Career Warriors, this wraps up today’s episode of the Career Warrior Podcast. We delved into some interesting things today of course, the 2022 term “quiet quitting”, and what that exactly means how this is nothing that is brand new, and something that we will always have to deal with as an economy. But what happens if it actually is us doing the quiet quitting if we’re not in it our heart and soul or we just don’t care about the position? There are multiple options. You don’t have to just straight up quit your job. We’re not telling you that you don’t have to leave your organization. You don’t even have to leave leave your department. The choice is yours based on where you are in life but it is important to understand and get clear on what it is exactly that you want. To make the right strategic move without rushing into anything, if you are in a period of your life where you’re not sure where to head next and you need more clarity, I highly recommend seeking out the help of a career coach.

We just heard from one of the best Sonja Dynamo price. So if you are interested in working with her, I will leave the link to her website within the description of this podcast episode. Please feel free to reach out to her or connect with her on LinkedIn. I’ll make sure to include that as well.

All right, warriors. That wraps up today’s episode. I’ll see you next week Career Warrior podcast and before you go remember, if you’re not seeing the results you want and your job search our highly trained team of professional resume writers here at Let’s Eat, Grandma can help head on over to letseatgrandma.com/podcast to get a free resume critique and $70 off any one of our resume writing packages. We talk all the time on the show about the importance of being targeted in your job search and with our unique writing process and focus on individual attention. You’ll get a resume cover letter and LinkedIn profile that are highly customized and tailored to your goals to help you get hired faster. Again, head on over to letseatgrandma.com/podcast. Thanks and I’ll see you next time!